Ethanol at Pearson Fuel Depot - Page 2

You make a great point biglg! I do feel for the beef farmers that can't afford the increasing prices of corn.  I guess their best bet would be to start raising corn crops of their own, enough to feed the cattle and enough to make some extra profit selling to the ethanol plants.  But this is not always possible.  I guess we need to find another source of fuel that doesn't effect of as domestically as this does.

So when these very same farmers that are now raising this $10+/bushel (currently ~ $4/bushel) corn to feed their cattle and sell them for $5/lb (currently ~ $1.50/lb), you will pay $30 for a T-bone and $50 for a fillet.  Actually what's currently happening is a lot of farmers are selling their cattle (including dairy) at all time high prices.  Soon there will be a shortage of beef and the price will go up at the store.
 
FYI:  Most farmers that are in the business of raising cattle aren't going to have the land or the capital to also raise corn.
 
Also forgot to mention hydroelectric power previously.  The greens wouldn't want to kill the frogs or whatever.

E85 is currently $0.40 cheaper than regular (E10) here in MN. Most gas stations have E85 pumps around here. I've read that E85 has about 72% of the useful energy of gasoline in a flex-fuel vehicle, so the price should be 28% less per gallon. It rarely is around here. I haven't tried it in my 2004 Tahoe yet - but I would if the value gap was less.

Todays prices.
Gas price/gal = $2.79
E85 price/gal = $2.39 (should be about $2.00 with energy value adjustment)

I'm sure that there is any relationship between energy content and the price of various fuels.  In the case of ethanol, there is currently a $ .52/gallon subsidy.  Now that corn prices are starting their meteoric rise, ethanol won't be far behind unless the feds increase the subsidy.

Welcome to the forum.

I don't think that the price of E85 or gasoline is calculated based on it's energy content although excise tax is  based on E85's energy content.

It may not be priced at it's energy content but it's a good way to decide if it's a good deal to buy.
Zx i think you said you could expect about 2 MPG decrease with E85...

My current MPG is 16..... X 26 gallons = 416 miles
E85 would be 14 MPG.... X 26 gallons = 364 miles

364/416 = 0.875 as efficient

My 87 octane is 2.75

0.875 X 2.75 = $2.41      so that's my break even price for E85

I'm sure there are many influences for pricing E85, but if a vehicle gets less mileage with E85, it should be priced accordingly or it doesn't make economic sense for consumers to buy it. That's the point I'm trying to make.

The above post is correct, the mileage with gas needs to be compared with E85 mileage to determine what the break even price of E85 should be for your vehicle.

I'm considering filling up with it next time just to see what my mileage is with E85 so I can tell at what price it becomes a good value to use in my Tahoe. I'm getting about 14.5-15mpg with gas right now. (mostly city with some metro highway). If I get 12mpg with E85 then it should be priced at $2.23-$2.30 when gas is priced at $2.79 to be equal value.

You guys are 100% correct however I'm quite sure that the average consumer (who may consider E85) just does the simple math in their head (much like you do to determine if 144 hotdog buns is a better value at Costco then a package of 8 at the grocery store), then there's those tree-hugger types that burn E85 to save the world no matter the cost.

I live nearby the only E85 station in the city in which I live; E85 is usually .30 -.50 cents more than regular here, I drive by the station several times a day and almost never see a vehicle at the E85 pump.  


Fore those who may consider running E85 you might want to actually compare a few tanks of E85 to Regular in your vehicle and determine just exactly what the difference in fuel economy is in your car with your driving habits and then do the math, some may get 20% worse MPG while others may get 20% better.

Has anyone here run E85 for long periods of time? Any issues? Any benefits?

Right now E85 is more expensive, the station count is 1300 which is rising every year. As of now E85 gets about 30 percent of traditional gasoline in mileage, and the energy loss from producing the ethanol is high. Cellulosic ethanol is more efficient then corn but is under produced, but once technology increases so will the production. As far as corn ethanol goes, we can only use surplus for the year, Because as our friends from Missouri were saying this put stress on those who need it. The big advantage right now in using E85 is we lessen are dependency on foreign energy. So you got a Tahoe that get 12 miles per gallon, in terms of gasoline your getting over 50 miles per gallon. This is big it is always better to be self-reliant then to depend on others. Over time E85 pumps will go up along with the cars that can run on it. So gasoline will be used less and less. Thus bring down the price of E85 and up the price of gasoline, that’s simple economics. E85 may be a short term cure for American reliance on foreign energy, but no matter what gasoline has to replaced.

quote:

So you got a Tahoe that get 12 miles per gallon, in terms of gasoline your getting over 50 miles per gallon.

 
I don't understand this statement.

quote:

ORIGINAL: 73shark

quote:

So you got a Tahoe that get 12 miles per gallon, in terms of gasoline your getting over 50 miles per gallon.

I don't understand this statement.

that makes 2 of us

It's typically the diesel guys making over exaggerated fuel economy claims but this one so far to date takes the cake hands down.
Must have bought one of them super-duper carburetors back in the 70's, you know the ones that guy made in his garage that the big auto makers and oil companies bought the rights to and destroyed the tooling and plans.

Had one Dodge/Cummins guy swear that he was getting 30+ mpg on his dually at one event.  

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrocha3
Right now E85 is more expensive, the station count is 1300 which is rising every year. 

I think that depends on where you are at. The pump price of E85 is always cheaper than gas here.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrocha3
As of now E85 gets about 30 percent of traditional gasoline in mileage...

Actually, that is backwards. E85 gets about 70% of traditional gas mileage - but individual vehicles and driving habits will vary some.
 

quote:

ORIGINAL: jrocha3
So you got a Tahoe that get 12 miles per gallon, in terms of gasoline your getting over 50 miles per gallon.

I'm not sure what this means. Gas content? (15% ) or CAFE E85 credit (Tahoe's are currently rated at 30 mpg for E85 corporate CAFE calculations. ~1.2 mpg credit.)
 
Ethanol production in the US is in its infancy. There's a company here that is proposing to start building an ethanol plant that makes it from switch grass - even though the technology for using it isn't 100% ready yet. Companies are also discussing making it from sugar beets too. The one thing ethanol does is make use of the vehicles and gas stations we already have - which never seems to be considered in many environmental calculations or arguements, because that will take a lot of energy and resources to replace. With investment and subsidies driving ethanol production and research now, so it will just be a matter of years before we know if it's worth it to pursue on a large scale and longer term basis or if it's just a stop gap measure until a better idea can be realized.
 
Actually, I'd like to see a diesel Tahoe soon that burns biodiesel or a percentage of it. That would get better mpg than any gas/ethanol motor and would seem to be a more efficient solution.

E85 stretches a barrel of gasoline further then using just Regular (approx. 87octane), meaning you use less gasoline but in terms of the big picture the gasoline is going further. We as Americans are stretching our gasoline thus lessening our dependence foreign energy. You have to look at the sentence in terms of the rest of my message, and the big picture.

That certainly cleared it up for me.

All fine and dandy except that the average consumer could care less where the fuel in his tank comes from.

FYI:
Most of the oil imported into the U.S comes from Canada not the Middle East.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1
FYI:
Most of the oil imported into the U.S comes from Canada not the Middle East.

.

I never knew that - Very Interesting

I also agree the average consumer does not care. But I hope everyone agrees that foreign products are anything that does not come from within the USA, hence the word import.

I believe a small chunk of it comes from Venezuela also.

I filled up the Tahoe with E85 today.
Regular was $2.70. E85 was $2.25. I'll see what my mileage difference is and if that was a good value.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1

All fine and dandy except that the average consumer could care less where the fuel in his tank comes from.

FYI:
Most of the oil imported into the U.S comes from Canada not the Middle East.

Excellent point Dave!  Dont quote me on my statistics (I am sure it can be searched but I didnt take the time), but most dont know what Dave just stated.  Canada is the #1 supplier to the US, followed by Mexico!  I cant seem to remember the percentages but I seem to remeber Canada alone gives the US 50-70% of the oil imported into the US.  Again this is from memory which is losing brain cells weekly.

I can't really figure out the American consumer, most people agree that global warming is a problem but few are willing to make any concessions or do much of anything to help the problem.

I personally believe that it's a natural occurrence that we cannot perpetuate or stall no matter how hard we try but that is beside the point.


Most Americans complain and worry about the loss of jobs in this country and our economy but few take a proactive stance to "Buy American" in fact some think that it's downright fashionable to be a little anti-America when it comes to auto's, even though U.S autos rate much better in quality now than most imports.

And remember that even if you purchase a foreign brand car that was made in the U.S all those profits find their way back to the motherland.

Just think how much less we would have to import if we could drill off Florida, Calif., and in ANWR.  I agree with Dave on the dreaded "global warming".  It's interesting that the most vocal proponents of it will not let us build windmills, hydroelectric dams, nuclear power, etc.  The local power company, KCPL, was finally allowed to build a wind farm out in Kansas, but only after beating down the opponents who were against it do to the visual impact on the view.  Now I don't know about the rest of you, but the many times I've traveled I-70 thru Kansas, I was underwhelmed by the "view".

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1
Most Americans complain and worry about the loss of jobs in this country and our economy but few take a proactive stance to "Buy American" in fact some think that it's downright fashionable to be a little anti-America when it comes to auto's, even though U.S autos rate much better in quality now than most imports.

And remember that even if you purchase a foreign brand car that was made in the U.S all those profits find their way back to the motherland.

I used to be an import guy several years ago -  now my household is 100% GM.  Me and my wife are extremely happy with our GM products.