hydrogen - Page 7

Well, after 3 days my test unit is still at 50psi, So now I know that I can sustain the pressure in it, which means that when I trun the truck off the the pressure will be there the next time I start it.

How long did it take to reach 50psi?

It took about 5 min to reach 75 psi, but that was with only 4 plates, drinking water and baking soda, and running direct juice from the battery. When  build the main unit it will have 32 plates, running distilled water and sodium hydroxide. I am not sure what kind of setup I am going to use to get electricity throught it effectively, either direct connect or pulse modulation. Last night I finished building my EFIE unit, hopefully this evening I will have a chance to test it, and post some pics.

May not be a good idea to run it direct from the battery. You need something that acts as a fuse in case your electrodes get too close together. I would hate to see a post on here about a battery explosion!

Anyway, how much money do you have in it now?

Too much to turn back, too much to turn back.

I talked with Impco today and to my surprise, the guy I talked to had no idea what I was talking about!!! He told me that they don't sell the propane setup for my truck. So I sent them an email asking whats up. I am thinking that all I am really needing is an adjustable pressure meter that lets more hydrogen in to the engine when I accelerate since I can build the pressure to back it up.

Damn Northey sounds like you are building a whole additional engine LOL!!  I cant wait to see some pictures when you're done.

Hey, I have been in contact with the EPA over the emission tampering and hopefully I will get the answers we need by this evening.

Here is a link you might like to check out on that:
I have not finished reading yet, but I think we are SOL!
http://www.epa.gov/otaq/regs/fuels/cff/memo1a97.pdf
 

Well, basically to sum that up: If you can get it to pass emissions, you'll be A-OK

I FOUND IT! Here is the website I mentioned earlier that has the EFIE units, pulse modulation units, and other hydrogen parts and stuff.
 
http://stores.homestead.com/hydrogengarage/StoreFront.bok

Well yeah but if a product is installed not approved and they find out whether it passes or not you are probably going to be in trouble.  I talked to a guy at the EPA and he said if it passes on an OBD II vehicle which is 96 or newer where all they do is plug into your computer they will probably never notice it.  BUT if it fails then they will it is supposed to be inspected and then they will see it.  Also on vehicles prior to 96 they get an inspection and therefore it will be detected every time.
The reason no HHO system has been approved yet is because it takes forever and costs about 400K to try for approval and at the end of it all it may be rejected.  So it is a tough thing to get someone to invest that much capital for potentially nothing.

Well ain't that a crock of garbage? The EPA really makes it hard for people to seek environmentally FRIENDLY alternatives. They defeat half of the purpose they were set up for.

You can just unhook it a week prior to getting it inspected.... it'll be a lot of trouble, but its once a year and its worth it if you are getting 30mpg.

Thats my plan, to just take out the generator and the hose connecting it to the engine and leave it at that. Not bad for once a year, especailly since it would give me a chance to take it apart and clean it.

OK, I am a little confussed! I keep doing more and more research and everybody has their own opinion, like that set of videos early in this thread said to use distilled water a sodium hydroxide, but this other website says that that mixture will be volitile and ruin any aluminium engine parts, they use distilled vinegar and water.
 
"Why we don't use Sodium or Potassium Hydroxide electrolyte catalyst:
Both are highly toxic to start with and they both produce a very toxic electrolyte solution that is very hazardous. As a matter of fact that type of electrolyte solution requires an EPA permit for disposal purposes, "its that toxic". Also, just to test sodium hydroxide and what it can do to your engines internal parts that are made of aluminum. Put a couple of tablespoons of caustic soda [lye] into a small container and add water. Now drop in an aluminum soda can and see what happens. Thats what happens to your pistons and heads of your engine over time using caustic soda [lye].
That is why we use White Distilled Vinegar, although a little less efficient, it "IS NOT" toxic and the electrolyte solution is harmless at clean out disposal time. If you read our instructions part #3 you will also see that we use plain ole white distilled vinegar for our electrolyte solution. Everything we use is of FOOD GRADE QUALITY. You actually can consume White Distilled Vinegar. That is how ecologically safe and friendly our systems are designed."

Northey - cool site.  Did you get any answers from the EPA? 

Unfortunately no, the guy did not get back to me today. Here is what I did find out today, DO NOT USE SODIUM HYDROXIDE (LYE) AS A CATYLIST!!! I tried some sodium hydroxide and a little bit of water, then put an alluminium can in it, and after an hour the can was almost gone! After seeing that, I don't want to take the chance of eroding my pistons and other alluminium parts. Tomorrow I am going to try the distilled white vinegar and see what happens.

Go wtih distilled vinger or citric acid. Any stronger than that will eat aluminum for sure like it said. Ever made a bottle bomb or a works bomb? its on the same principle. You put HCl or Works toilet cleaner in a pepsi bottle with aluminum foil and the reaction causes the bottle to expand until it pops like a ballon. That just adds a point of interest to the subject though...lol
Don't use an aluminum can to observe the chemical reaction if there is one. Use aluminum foil. Its more like engine parts in the respect that it doesn't have a protective coating like cans do.

When I pulled the can out thats practically all that was left was the protective coating, I literaly could see through the bottom of the can side to side.

Wow, I havent heard anything bad about vinegar.  Thats what Im gonna use for sure.  Let us know how it works for ya.  Im still trying to get some concrete mpg on the highway before I put mine in.  The city mpg's fluctuate to much to really get any consistency, I keep getting +/- 3 mpg.  So Im gonna drive the same route on the highway filling up right as I get on and off a few times.
That was a good idea to do some bench testing first.  Im gonna do that this week.  You gotta be safe, there are some videos on youtube with guys goofing around that is scary.  What did you power it with, right off your battery or do you have a bench source that makes 12v power? 

Distilled white vinegar is good, I have had a piece of alluminium foil sitting in it for 8 hours with out adverse affects. I have been using the truck batt. to power it when I am testing. When I did the pressure test, I put the test unit in a empty trash can about 15' away from the truck with leads running to the batt., just in cast it desided to blow.
 
For an up date on the pressure test, after a week it still has maintaned it pressure of 50psi.

Wow I have been away awhile.
Well I just completed my efie and installed it in the blazer. I have been fooling around with different ideas and tried for a day 10ohm resistors inline with the O2 sensors. And I can tell you don’t do that. Gas dropped off like crazy. 16mpg.
 
So trial and error but his time I may have it. I am still fooling with the design a little to make it easier to assemble. And it does not help when you have to order parts from online. You should be able to get most of the parts from Radio shack but the transformer I used is hard to get. This was modified using 2 seperate transformers
 
Again this is not the final design just something I have been working on. The schematic has been taken from different places on the web and modified to make it cheaper and easier to build. Again I am only testing to see how it works. This drawing should make it easier to build.

Awesome, For some reason I can't get mine pass the bench test stage, but its getting there. Like you said, I hate having to order part online and having to wait, then you mess up and have to wait longer to get more of that part in. Fun.

I have not tried this yet but will test it soon. Use Radio Shack 25k pots  271-1721 and BR 276-1152 and using the same transfomers I have it should all work the same. But again it is not tested.

Ok you have to check this out. I just built it today cost around $30. Took about 1.5hours to get it figured out but everything work perfect. (so far)


right now I have it dialed in at 22.6mv will see the results soon