hydrogen - Page 5

If you follow those instructions exactly you will see great production. That includes how the plates are prepped.
Also get some sodium or potassium hydroxide instead of baking soda. I ordered it Friday and I should see it this week.
From http://www.summerbeemeadow.com/SitePages/OnLineShopSupplies_C.html
Not a bad price and will last for years.

Oh, by the way, welcome to the forum!!! I hope you will stick around since you built these things. I have a question for you, the plate configuration, if I am looking at right the only plates that have power are the outer two, and the only ones that are negative are the middle two, so what are the plates in between? and how does that work?

Northey- I watched that video last week.  I believe the two outer plates are connected to the wires.  Then he spaced the plates with steel washers to keep them charged except for the ones he wanted negative where he used nylon washers.  But I could be wrong, and Im not sure why he did it anyway.  From what I have seen your mix concentration determines how much amps are drawn and how much heat is made.  You can adjust that by using more or less conductor.  Like I said I could be wrong.
Oh yeah- welcome to the forum rtsurfer- how are your results coming and can you clear this up any?

Thanks I just found this forum on this topic from google. So the plate configuration he is using divide the plates in half right down the middle. Only look at one half.
So you have negative/neutral/ neutral/ neutral/ neutral/ neutral/ neutral/positive.
 
The way the system work is in order for the current to get from the positive plate to the negative is has to pass through and around the neutral plates. Therefore charging them even through they are not attached to either positive or negative but make them act like the negative plate but still drawing voltage. If they were attached the unit will have to need more voltage. But instead nocks the voltage down as it jumps across each plate. Brining it down to around 2-4volts. That is all any of these system need. Anything over that heats the water. Do not get me wrong the water will heat up but the temp should be around 120degrees.
 
So far mine has finally stayed steady temperature for the last 2 days. Current has not gone over 20amps and my volt meter is still at 13volts. As were when the current would jump up to 20+amps the volt draw was down to 10-11 volts. It got crazy.
 
And no the washers he uses are all nylon, and they are not making contact. The only plates making contact are the plates with the Stainless steel nut next to it.
This will explain better http://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/8FX5Ryg4SF1D3oyJQfO3lETeLwaQligvycy7Dszca4RooZUS_-AvAd6tcY-Wxg0y4pTsVlIiCn5WFFp7XZsGSY4Z-TLjDwoxsw/Chapter10.pdf
Page 10-14 explains why is works in detail.
Hope that helps.

I am learning as I do. Lots of mistakes were and are being made. But that is how I learn. Read it then try it- put out a few fires  but i am still trying new things.

Where I am at now is all listed here
http://www.s10forum.com/forum/f107/hho-injection-on-2002-blazer-xtreme-4-3l-results-345731/

Do you think the temp would get higher if I stacked two of the plate thingys (independent of eachother) one on top of the other in the same container? because I have the room.

northey the propane just has a adjustment on the back of the mixer to make it richer or leaner, might require a little bit of tweaking with hydrogen, rtsurfer you bring up some good points, im going to change a few things on my system, my plates were stacked horizontally which probably isnt the best, i used regular tap water with baking soda, spacing is about a 1/4 inch, see how good i can make it produce

The reason I asked was because that is the adapter that I would be getting is basically a porpane mixer from Impco, I like to hear that it is adjustable on the mixer itself.

some propane systems have the mixture screw on the line going to the mixer

From what I think the guy I talked to said is that there is a mixer screw on the mixer, but I will call them again a double check.

quote:

ORIGINAL: northey87

Do you think the temp would get higher if I stacked two of the plate thingys (independent of eachother) one on top of the other in the same container? because I have the room.

Yes you can stack them but..... I would only connect them in series. Kind of like this image...

Even if you added a second system it should be connected in series. The negative from one booster to the positive of the second booster. Then the negative of the second booster to ground. Stacking on top of each other you may see 2liter minute, if you prep the plates correctly. Also make sure the positive and negative connections are wrapped in something to stop the electrical leak in the bath. They suggest using electrical tape. I don't think it will work well or for that long. THe tape has glue that can mix in your bath. Radio Shack and Homedepot have shrink tubing I would use that. Shrink tubing can handle high heat (constant 200-400degrees) with no problem. I use it everyday and shrink it with 1000degree heat gun. Plus there is no glue inside to mix in the bath.

Would it make the temp rise above 140 degrees?

It should not. Still should be 120degrees. You are connecting in series which will cut voltage down. it is the volts that heat the water.

If I wire them I series wouldn't that drop the voltage even lower, so how would that increase the production of hydrogen? Or is the hydrogen production limited because of the amount of surface area of the plates (i.e. more plates=more surface area=more production)?

Yes but you are not looking for voltage it is the current the produces the HHO. and the current remains the same on the plates But like I have said before I am learning as I go (same as you). so this is what I have read so far.
I would keep an AMP gauge in the car so you can watch what is going on. if it climbs past 20amp shut is down. Dilute the electrolyte with distilled water and try again.
I find that it heats up in 20min. I will post my wiring a little later today so you can see how I have it.
I also have it connected to the fuel pump so that it only comes on when the fuel pump has power. And that is only when the engine is running.
 

Rt- that a good idea on the fuel pump.  I was a little concerned about if you got into an accident and your engine shuts off but your key is still on.  Where id you hook up in the fuse box?
One thing you guys need to realize is that to much from the system can be a bad thing to.  Mainly due to so much oxygen going thru the system you just can not fool the O2 sensor enough.  Remember this is an add on system not a replacment for gas.  I have heard a lot about an overbuilt system will get you nowhere.

It is connected under the hood fuse box fuel pum relay. So the key has to be on and engine running for it to be on.
 
From what I have seen 1liter per minute on a 2.0 engine resulted in an 8mpg increase. So for a 4.3 liter is going to need a bit more then that. But If you want to run on HHO entirely then.....
 
Stan Meyers had 4 units on his early vw which had 50-70hp. So if that little engine needed 4 then what do you think ours will need....
 
Get the O2 sensor out of the exhaust stream. They should be able to adjust 25% or more if done right.
 
 

Yeah, I might mess around with it on my Nova a little bit since it has not O2 and see what happens, but that is not my daily driver so if I can improve that car it is no big deal, I need it on my newer cars .  I am finding that on engines up to about 5 liters or so 1 liter per minute is enough to help a good amount without a bunch of side effects, but everyone has a different opinion.  Maybe as we all get going it will help us out.

Ok here is how I wired the blazer. I put an amp gauge in hte car so I can see what is going on under the hood. I also have a kill switch for the relay so I can shut it down.  Hope this helps

I think that I have finally got all my parts ordered. hopefully I will start building my unit soon, and seeing how much hydrogen I can get out of it. I am going to try different ways of running current through it, in series, independant, and in series and independant running it on a controler unit.

Well the news is HHO on a 4.3liter 21.7mpg CITY that is right CITY. My HHO production is 852ml per minute now @ 19.7amps.

So this is living proof this system is working.

I plan on adding a second unit in this week end and maybe see 22-25mpg city.

Right on good for you.  So what did you do about your O2 sensor?  I think you said you spaced it out?  Did you buy one of those spacers or make one?  That seems like a lot of amps though, usually they should be around 10 so it sounds like your concentration is high.  What is the temp?  It might be running kinda hot.

when you introduce HHO into the engine the gas is burned more cleanly therefore there will be less CO2 in the exhaust and more oxygen. So the O2 sensors read low higher oxygen and tells the ECU to add more gas to fix the problem. The O2 sensors can not tell you are adding an alternative fuel like HHO so they try to correct the problem. There are a few ways to correct this. One way is a custom tune. But if your HHO booster is off then the tune will be no good and even very bad for the engine. Running lean. You can add an EFIE (Electronic Fuel Injection Enhancer) that will tell the computer false reading but so far the best way I have found to do this is by pulling the O2 sensors out of the direct exhaust stream by buying non fouler plugs at the local Auto Parts in the Help section. part number 42006. Drill them out with .5" drill put it in place of the O2sensor in the exhaust and the put the O2 sensors back in. You would need to do this on all 3 sensors. I choose this because they where a little long then the standard non-fouler. Some have used 2 non-foulers back to back,I tired it But I have been throwing O2sensor error for low heat. P0135. I have not had a problem Using only one so far for 2 weeks and have not had one SES light. But it still pulls the sensor out of the exhaust stream enough to trick the computer just a bit so the HHO can work better.
Like this

As far as the amps I am ok. Most systems run at 15-20amps. By adding neutral paltes it knocks the volts down in hte system. With the the temp. is down. THe extra voltage can not heat the water the same. I do not want to boil the water because that creates stream not HHO. WHne I pulled in last night the amp read 19.99 amps and that was after an hour of driving.
 
I can still touch the container so it is cooler then before. Last week I was not able to do so. I have not yet got a thermometer to test it. But from all indications it is ok.  

rtsurfer, I may have asked you before but what is your container made of?
 
I was up late one night thinking about the O2 sensor problem, and what I am going to try a EFIE system. I have the plans to build one and the best part is when the unit is turned off then the O2 reading just goes straight to the ECM, unadjusted. Also I will be using two air/fuel ratio gauges, one before the EFIE and one after to hopefully get a better handle on the O2 sensor signal.