hydrogen - Page 10

Surprise you don’t read or listen very well do you.
On what site do you think I sell stuff? You must have misread. I have not sold anything to HHO production.
This is my own personal experiment. And I am living proof that it can increase your gas mileage.
Hydrogen is the most abundant of the chemical elements, constituting roughly 75% of the universe's elemental mass.
So weather you make in onboard or store it there is no reason why we should not be using it as a fuel.
There are more ways to separate hydrogen from oxygen. And it can be very efficient.
TO give you my own personnel experience
For over a year I have recorded my gas mileage in my 2002 blazer 4.3L engine. I travel everyday the same path. 37-40miles city driving everyday. My gas mileage ran from 17.5-18.5mpg.
Since I put a HHO booster in my car which now puts out 1liter minute 12volts @ 20amps. I have ran constantly over 21mpg. I have hit 23.33mpg(5/15.08), 22.22mpg (5/20/08), 21.75mpg (5/1/08)
 
Humm it must rob power to produce it. Yep you are right!
 
Thanks for pointing it out. I will take it out now.
 

The way I see it, you are using less power making hydrogen than you do running your stereo... The load on the Electrical system has no bearing on the performance of the engine. That alternator is not going to put anymore resistance on the engine using the generator than it would NOT using it. Anyway, if it puts too much load on your electrical system, upgrade your alternator.

No one on this site is selling HHO generators. If they were, I'd put a quick stop to that.

Thanks EuroGoldLS
 
But again it can be too much. I have 2 units in my blazer. With both running the same 12v @15amps I loose gas mileage.
 
What I am working on next is a step up coil/ alternator multiplier tap.
 
This will multiply the voltage coming from the alternator
Then after the first booster, the ground has 4v that will normally drain to ground.
 
This is unused voltage on the first booster. This is what I want to step up and use on the next booster. This can be done without using addition power from the alternator.
 
Stanley Meyers had a setup that was way beyond what I can comprehend now. I watched and entire video how he can do it and produce HHO to run his car or any other vehicle.
 
But the video is now gone. Try a search for Stanley Meyers New Leland. The video was over a hour long. It has been deleted.

Hey, I just read through this whole thread, and I wanted to bring up an old subject, distilled white vinegar vs. NAOH or KOH.  The claims by the company using distilled white vinegar might be false, as the HHO delivered to the engine would be gaseous, I havent run the equation yet, but it would seem to me that when combining H20 + NaOH or KOH, your reaction would leave you with H2 and a pecipitate solution.  Meaning the only thing going into your engine is hydrogen, not the precipitate solution (which is what the aluminum can is sitting in, and adding electrolosis only speeds up the reaction.)  Also, since your running the H2 through a bubbler, any substance denser than air is going to stay in the bubbler, (like how a bong keeps the shake and ash out of your mouth.)  What you could do is submerge an aluminum can in water upside down, put the tube coming off the bubbler into the can, and let it push the water out (like smack did in his video), and rig it so the can stays underwater.  Once you see H2 coming out from under the can, shut off your rig, and let the can act like a container under the water, I can almost garuantee you that the end product coming off the bubbler isnt corrosive.  So it shouldnt effect any engine parts, but I'd test that theory first.  Or cut up pieces of an aluminbum can, and fill a container (like a ziploc or something), with the H2 and put the pieces in there and observe any changes.  Upon opening the container or bag, have a lit lighter there just to make sure the H2 didn't escape.

Also, I'll be taking chem II this summer, so if theres any chemical questions that you guys need answered, lemme know and I'll run em by the professor.

The thing is if by any chance the liquid gets out of the booster (for any reason) it would be disastrous. After everything I did I do not what to take a chance of Sodium or potassium hydroxide getting into my engine.

A diffrent angle to this.Lets say I am on a jury judging weither or not to put you in jail for a long long time because you where involved in a crash and the generator continued to produce the gas.You had no placards on the car to tell EMT's,Police,Fireman,that system was on board.The car caught fire and burned them very badly or killed one or two when it blew-up.Remember this gas works well because of it's very low flash point.D.O.T. reg's we are told have a problem reg'ing this sytem because it uses the gas and doesn't store it.You state during the trial that you where just "trying it out".That you never though it would be that dangerous.(kind of lends itself to you really didn't condsider all the factors)You insurance co never wants you to come in contact with you ever again and states they didn't know it was on your car.(yeah they abandent you right there)The families of the EMT,Police,Fireman are there in their with tears in their eyes.They give it to the jury which I am apart of to consider what to do.(Now I know this is the simplest explaination of how a trial works)Well what do I vote and why??.I vote to ruin your life anyway I can with fines and jail time.Why-seems very clear that you didn't care at all about the people you hurt and all you cared about was yourself.Seems offensive???.Yes it is.When you say something that offends someone sure enough there is some truth to it.
 
Dangerous Goods Specialist Licensed In Washington D.C.
 
Gary
 
BTW:A good rule to live by is:Know what you are doing and
 
do what you know.

If you have the system wired right then the HHO system will shut down when your engine cuts out after a crash, if your in such a crash that it does not effect the engine (i.e. rear ended) then there would be nothing to worry about because the engine is still burning the hydrogen, until you or someone turns the car off.

Thanks northey87
 
I am not storing HHO in hte car just producing it. And not at a high volume that and danger like what you a talking about can take place.
 
If I was to light it and it did explode the flash would be fast.
 
No more hydrogen it is just water.
 
Again I am not storing it. As it is made it is burned. If the container is cracked the system looses water. No Hydrogen. System shuts down. Electrical system shorts out The booster shuts down.

quote:

ORIGINAL: northey87

If you have the system wired right then the HHO system will shut down when your engine cuts out after a crash, if your in such a crash that it does not effect the engine (i.e. rear ended) then there would be nothing to worry about because the engine is still burning the hydrogen, until you or someone turns the car off.
 
 
N.H.R.A. ban the use of this as a fuel yrs ago because no insurance carrier would touch this and the reason was all research from N.H.R.A. and the insurance companies found it to be one for the most unstable fuels anyone could use.Anything would set it off(a greese finger print,rustly bolt,anything) and most of the time it exploded.

20 + yr vet at drag racing,
 
Gary
 
 

Again not storing it.
 
LEts say from you example I went down to Lowes and got a propane tank for my BBQ. ANd I get into a accedent. It blew up.
 
Does my insurance company leave me.?
 
But maybe there is more here about hydrogen powered cars on the street. GM, Ford and Chrysler are all looking into it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle
 
How about here
http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1356277,00.html
 
"20 + yr vet at drag racing,

Gary "
 
And I stayed at Holiday Inn Last Night

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtsurfer

Again not storing it.

LEts say from you example I went down to Lowes and got a propane tank for my BBQ. ANd I get into a accedent. It blew up.

Does my insurance company leave me.?

But maybe there is more here about hydrogen powered cars on the street. GM, Ford and Chrysler are all looking into it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_vehicle

How about here
http://www.news24.com/News24/Technology/News/0,,2-13-1443_1356277,00.html

"20 + yr vet at drag racing,

Gary "

And I stayed at Holiday Inn Last Night

 
 
I think(and you know)that there is huge difference between a shade tree mechanic and the big three cert a system is safe.No way you have the R & D they have.I could show you a number of people who took a ride over Nia Falls,but not sure if I would do that.LOL

So what about a bottle of NOS? R&D there?
 
Or better yet this is safe?


 
 
 

My container can carry about 1 liter of water 1/8 of which is HHO (a little more then 1cup)(when on) 1/4 rubber hose about 3ft long 3inch diameter bubbler 1/2 cup of HHO then another 2 ft of rubber hose.
 
Again making it on board is much safer then 4 bottles of H2 in the trunk.

quote:

ORIGINAL: rtsurfer


The thing is if by any chance the liquid gets out of the booster (for any reason) it would be disastrous. After everything I did I do not what to take a chance of Sodium or potassium hydroxide getting into my engine.

 
Thats true, also wanted to let people know (with a disclaimer that my knowledge of chemistry is shoddy at best) that using saltwater as an electrolyte is a HORRIBLE IDEA, as that produces 2 gases, Hydrogen and *Chlorine*.  This is bad since hydrogen and chlorine are the only ingredients needed to make hydrochloric acid, which WILL ruin any metal in your engine, but, I dont know the conditions needs for the two to mix and precipitate into the acid. 
 
2H20 + 2NaCl(salt) -electrolosis-> H2(gas) + Cl2(gas) + 2NaOH (liquid sodium hydroxide solution)

quote:

ORIGINAL: BassinProf

Okay, here you go.  If you've taken a high school level physics class you should know that you can't get more energy out of a system than you put in.  You are going to use energy to strip H from water, then you are going to burn the resulting H which produces energy and water.  There's no way you can get more energy out of the burning of H than it took to produce the H in the first place.  So... no problem you say, because you are going to get that energy from your battery.  To this I reply that that energy isn't free, it came from your alternator that produced the energy by imposing an additional load on your engine and reduced the output of the engine in the process.     

This concept would be more realistic if you were using hydrogen cannisters rather than making the hydrogen from water.  This, in fact appears to be the basis of the hydrogen fuel cell that the major car manufacturers are working on.

Alternatively, use a second battery solely for powering H production and recharge it using household current. You would still have to put in more energy than you get from H combustion but I would assume energy from the electric grid is cheaper than energy produced by your car engine.

 
Ok, here you go.  If you've taken a high school level physics course you know that you can't neglect energy that is inherently stored in the system in question, namely, the hydrogen atom.  Think of the molecule of water in this way, its a big beefy bouncer, in handcuffs.  The bouncer being the Hydrogen atoms, and the handcuffs being the Oxygen atoms, together, they are fairly useless when it comes to strength and energy, but remove one from the other, and you can release the power of the bouncer.  Atoms inherently harness a great deal of energy (have you not heard of atomic bombs? or going even further, the hydrogen bomb?)  As far as your "you will waste more energy trying to get energy" argument, it holds no water.  The energy taken from the engine by a minute electrical load is *taken into account* when the hydrogen is burned in combustion.  Because the new fuel added into the engine...and heres the hard tricky part...is now helping to run the engine.  If in fact the engine was taking on more of a load than was being compensated by the new fuel, then there would be a drop in efficiency which would be directly reflected in fuel economy.  Simply put, if the electrical load causes youre engine to be 5% less efficient, but the hyrdogen fuel boost causes it to be 25% more efficient, I believe you can see where I'm going with this..., the total efficiency of the engine will be better by 20%.  And *THAT* is what they're trying to attain. It's a lesson in energy transfer, more specifically, chemical energy to mechanical energy.
 
Sadly, I never took a high school physics class :'(
 
/But I do have a degree in structural engineering, go figure.

Bassin is definately way to pesimistic but he does make a good point about safety.  My degree is in Mechanical Engineering so I am taking the proper steps to do it safely but I have learned it is a very powerful gas thru a mishap I had thru my own negligence. 
There is a liability issue and a moral resposibility we should keep in mind when making a unit.  It is essential that it does not run when the engine shuts off.  If the key is on and your unit is running before your engine starts that is a problem and will be very dangerous in the event of an accident where the engine is shut off.

Right now it is connected the fuel pump relay. That only runs when the engine is running. So the unit only runs then. If the key is on while the engine is not running. The booster does not run.
 
 

Anyone trying this on a new engine?  My 07 NBS silvie gets about 16 mpg but I think that 18-20 would be nice, but I dont know how well this would run, or whether or not it would void the warranty (I'm almost positive it would.)

Thats a good question, the first thing you need to remember is that the dealer wants your car to break under warranty so they get the service from the manufacturer.  I knew a gentleman who owned a dealership that carried a few different brands including VW.  He said VW at the time was complete junk his markup on them was minimal.  However the only reason he kept the brand was so he could service them- lots of cash in service!
So that said if in fact something broke it would have to be proven that the HHO system caused it and I'm not convinced that the dealer would want to or else they dont get the service work.  It is easier for them to just do the work than prove you broke it.
Under the Magnuson-Moss Act, a dealer must prove, not just vocalize, that aftermarket equipment caused the need for repairs before it can deny warranty coverage. If the dealer cannot prove such a claim — or it proffers a questionable explanation — it is your legal right to demand compliance with the warranty. The Federal Trade Commission administers the Magnuson-Moss Act and monitors compliance with warranty law.
read more:
http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesArticle/Keeping-Your-Mod-s-Warranty-Intact.id-2669.html

Hi to all, new here.. Hmmm... I'm beggining to like this topic...any picture of that...they say it is the answer for the future coz of the increasing cost of fuel...

Guys,guys,let's just see who backs this fuel.Call your insurance co and tell them what you want to do.Report that back to us.
 
 
Btw:Just had a thought.When you spray nitrous to any great amount,you have to retard the timing with a controler.Don't know if I missed that part,but I didn't think I saw anything about that with the use of this fuel.Why would it be any different with this??. 

ehhget, interesting, I never thought about it like that.  I don't think I'd have a serious problem taking it to a dealer, but I think they might question a complete engine failure, lol.
 
1Gary, I believe someone said you might have to retard the timing by 1 degree or so, but you might need to do more if you're pumping in more than 1-2L / min.  Because I also heard you need about 1L/min for every liter of displacement of the engine.

Your engines computer makes adjustments for timing constantly if something changes.  I think you are talking on older engines but I dont know anything about nitrous so dont hold me to that.
RT surfer- How did you connect it to the relay.  I think mine is in the fuse panel and I am not exactly sure how you would connect to it electrically.

     Hi Y'all, Just found your site and have some info to pass along.  I have a HHO unit utilizing stainless steel electrical cover plates (@ $1.29 each) for conducting the electrolysis process for producing Hydrogen.  It uses 9 plates in a pos-neutral-neg-neutral-pos......and so on that works quite well.  The plates are frome Lowes hardware (Home Depot will do) with 1/8 inch spacing (nylon washers) but be sure to remove the clear plastic coating from the plate.  Use Baking Soda as your electrolyte and not salt to avoid producing the nasty chlorine gas.  I utilize 2 containers (PVC40) 1 for HHO unit and 1 for additional electrolyte supply with an electronic fuel pump between them.  This allows the electrolyte to remain cool (about 140 degrees) enough to not boil.  Use a seperate smaller container as a "bubbler" as to not suck water into your engine and avoid any back flash beyond the bubbler to the unit.  This bubbler should be about 1/3 full of water and have one tube entering it from the HHO unit and submerged in the water.  A second tube should exit the bubbler from the gas chamber formed above the water and enter the carbeuration at whatever selected site fits your need.  That is a quick overview of my design that produces quite well however I have yet to determine how to best hook this baby to a Chevy Vortec engine.
 
     I hope this may help someone with your progress and good-luck