2003 Suburban DEFECT - rear hatch glass hinge breaking

I have a 2003 Suburban with 60k miles. About 2 months ago, the rear window began making a whistling noise while driving. When I inspected it I found that the hinge was separating from the window. I have tried to go through GM with no avail. Their answer is "it shouldn't have happened", but they are not going to do anything about it.

This truck is the 2500 with the 8.1 engine, designed for towing. I regularly tow a 30ft travel trailer, and a 24 ft car hauler. I have been told that when towing a large trailer, there is a vacuum created that could be pulling the window back.

Has anyone else had this type of problem, and was it resolved?

brbothwell@msn.com

Thanks,

Brad

Update -

The Area Service Manager Mr. Talmadge Mason (Phone number 800-823-0055 X 8140) called me finally. He is saying that he denied the claim due to the vehicles mileage (60K miles) and due to the fact that I am the second owner, even though I bought it from a Chevy dealer and it was a GM certified Vehicle.

GM's customer assistance hotline has told me that he denied the claim due to the fact that something had been lodged in between the glass and hatch, or that "wind" had caught the window and broke the hatch.

While I was speaking with him he "said" that he had only seen the hinge separate from the glass 3 previous times, which I found pretty strange since he is the Area Service Manager. He stated that one of the hinges had some material lodged in it, and the other had been caught by the wind. I asked how wind had caught the window and caused the hinge to hyperextend and break since the gas shocks would stop the window from blowing up. Quick as he was, he replied that the customer told him that he removed the gas shocks and then a gust of wind blew the glass up and broke the hinge. I asked if any of these 3 hinges were covered under warranty (he already told me all 3 were within the warranty period), he said that all 3 went through their insurance agencies. When I asked him why he was involved with this problem if it was an insurance claim, he told me that they all "tried" to have their warranty cover it, and he denied all 3. He said that he physically inspected all of them and personally determined that the customer was responsible. When I asked him if he inspected my vehicle, he told me that the service manager at my dealership had inspected it and relayed the information to him. He made the determination that I caused the damage without inspecting the vehicle!

When I asked him about all the other vehicles that have been repaired under warranty or under a "customer satisfaction" initiative, he told me that he was unaware of any other vehicles having this problem. I told him that I spoke with a tech (GM Tech) and he said that his dealership does about 2 of these per month. He again replied that he was unaware of any defect in the hinge/adhesive/glass, and that there were no service bulletins on it.

I had told him that I did not believe him, and that it was a little too convenient that he only has seen this 3 times, and all 3 were the customers fault. When I asked for the name of his immediate supervisor, he refused to give me the information. I asked him if he was concerned about me filing a complaint, and his only response was to refer me to the Customer Service Hotline.

Anyone have any advice on where to take this? Small claims court?

Brad

Just curious, what part of 3 year or 36,000 mile warranty do you not understand?
Especially if you aren’t even the original purchaser, I mean man suck it up and have some dignity and pay the damn bill.
Your warranty has expired a long time ago.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1

Just curious, what part of 3 year or 36,000 mile warranty do you not understand?
Especially if you aren’t even the original purchaser, I mean man suck it up and have some dignity and pay the damn bill.
Your warranty has expired a long time ago.

Well, fortunately I have been educated beyond the 6th grade, so I have no problem comprehending a 3/36 warranty. What I am talking about is a defect in manufacturing or the manufacturing process. This is not a warranty part claim, this is a defective part inquiry. GM just recalled 900,000 vehicles dating back 12 years due to a faulty tailgate strap. This hinge has separated from the glass or failed on more vehicles than just mine. GM has repaired or replaced the part on some of them, and some of them they have refused to accept that it is an issue. I had a GM tech tell me that his dealership does at least 2 of these per month.

If I can afford to pay in excess of $36,000 in cash for a 1 year old vehicle, than trust me $1,500 for a window is not a problem. I am escalating this based solely on principle. I had the ASM tell me that the "3" vehicles that he has ever seen come in all had the repairs done under insurance claims, not under warranty. That means our insurance companies are footing the bill for a defective part put out by GM. Think of that next time you send in your premium.

Brad

quote:

ORIGINAL: rxlrider

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1

Just curious, what part of 3 year or 36,000 mile warranty do you not understand?
Especially if you aren’t even the original purchaser, I mean man suck it up and have some dignity and pay the damn bill.
Your warranty has expired a long time ago.

Well, fortunately I have been educated beyond the 6th grade, so I have no problem comprehending a 3/36 warranty. What I am talking about is a defect in manufacturing or the manufacturing process. This is not a warranty part claim, this is a defective part inquiry. GM just recalled 900,000 vehicles dating back 12 years due to a faulty tailgate strap. This hinge has separated from the glass or failed on more vehicles than just mine. GM has repaired or replaced the part on some of them, and some of them they have refused to accept that it is an issue. I had a GM tech tell me that his dealership does at least 2 of these per month.

If I can afford to pay in excess of $36,000 in cash for a 1 year old vehicle, than trust me $1,500 for a window is not a problem. I am escalating this based solely on principle. I had the ASM tell me that the "3" vehicles that he has ever seen come in all had the repairs done under insurance claims, not under warranty. That means our insurance companies are footing the bill for a defective part put out by GM. Think of that next time you send in your premium.

Brad

"Based on principle"????????
You're joking right?

Call the NTSB and file a complaint against GM and then wait for the recall.........That'll teach GM a lesson and problem solved.

And whether my insurance company pays for the repair or GM pays the end consumer is ultimately the one footing the bill, now if you pay then everyone wins.

So when is it ok for the suburban to start breaking down? 70,000 miles 90,000 miles 200,000 miles? They do not last forever, they are mechanicle and do require to be fixed from time to time thru no fault of you own.

quote:

ORIGINAL: mrlong

So when is it ok for the suburban to start breaking down? 70,000 miles 90,000 miles 200,000 miles? They do not last forever, they are mechanicle and do require to be fixed from time to time thru no fault of you own.

I completely agree that wearable parts will need to be repaired or replaced, that is part of owning a vehicle. I do not consider a hinge that is glued to a window with adhesive that fails to be a wearable part. I feel that a undamaged hinge that is properly engineered and installed should last the useful life of the vehicle. I have had over 100 people e-mail me or reply to posts that have had the same exact problem (and that is just from people on the internet who visit these type of foruns).

Oh yea ZX1100F1 - when GM foots the bill it is the stockholders who are investing in the company who ultimately foot the bill. Take a look at their stock history $55 a share in 2003 down as low as $18 earlier this year, and in the mid-30's today.

I'm here to let other people who have had the same issue know that it is not a isolated incident. Obvously this post has turned into a forum for faceless/nameless persons to argue a point rather than educate people who have had this problem.

Anyone can e-mail me if they have anything constructive to discuss, not to argue the points.

Brad

quote:

ORIGINAL: rxlrider

Oh yea ZX1100F1 - when GM foots the bill it is the stockholders who are investing in the company who ultimately foot the bill. Take a look at their stock history $55 a share in 2003 down as low as $18 earlier this year, and in the mid-30's today.

I'm here to let other people who have had the same issue know that it is not a isolated incident. Obvously this post has turned into a forum for faceless/nameless persons to argue a point rather than educate people who have had this problem.

Brad

Brad,
You're dead wrong! Expenditures are recouped by raising prices of products and services but thanks for the lesson in business economics 101 anyhow.

I also consider ALL parts to be "wearable parts" and can't find one syllable in my warranty booklet were it states the GM will cover hinges longer than the specified 3/36 warranty.
You do not have a cradle to grave warranty on your Suburban.

[/quote]

Brad,
You're dead wrong! Expenditures are recouped by raising prices of products and services but thanks for the lesson in business economics 101 anyhow.

I also consider ALL parts to be "wearable parts" and can't find one syllable in my warranty booklet were it states the GM will cover hinges longer than the specified 3/36 warranty.
You do not have a cradle to grave warranty on your Suburban.

[/quote]

After reading some of your other posts you obvously have a negative angle on GM standing behind any defective part wether under warranty or not. Makes me kind of wonder what your relationship is with GM, as you seem to have a tremendous knowledge base on repair issues...

Oh yeah - ECON 101, GM will have in their budget a certain amount of monies for warranty claims, customer satisfaction initatives, defect recalls, TSB's, ect. When those monies are not used, where exactly does that go on the balance sheet? Profit, or a positive influence on a loss for the year, depending on the kind of year that they are having. So, by your reasoning GM should lower the proce on automobiles when they have a surplus of dollars from that budgeted amount. I think not.

I won't even discuss how ALL parts could be considered wearable parts?

Brad

Here's a response that I thought I would share with you. I left out their personal information, but thanks ZX1100F1 for scaring people away. It is a problem and GM will have to deal with it one way or another.

Hi I read your posts on-line and didn't respond there because the people were very rude. this week i discovered that the hinge on my rear hatch of my 2003 suburban was broken. The plastic part of the hinge is broken, I am a faux painter and I use my hatch a lot loading all of my equipment in and out. I took it to my dealer and he said that they were having problems with this, I was the second person in a week and the windows are on national backorder. Then he gave me the very bad news that it was $900 to replace the window. Apparently they can't just fix the hinge - it is all one piece. Even though my truck is an 03 I have 80,000 miles on it. He said if I didn't have so many miles that maybe I could get GM to do something about it but not with so many miles. I live in south florida where we have torrential downpours on a regular basis so I paid for the part and am waiting for it to arrive so it can be installed.
The situation is not exactly resolved in the way I think you meant but I thought I would relay my experience to you.


Brad

Brad,
You found one other person (so you say) with similar problem, congratulations!
I am definitely seeing an epidemic here now.

Brad:

You say you paid $36,000.00 cash for a one year old vehicle... Do you realize that your car is actually 4 years old now, not 1 year old. you also said you bought it from a dealership, I'm quite sure they offered you an extended warranty when you purchased it, dealerships make quite a bit of money selling warranties... Did you purchase an extended warranty? If so, why don't you take it up with your warranty company?

Jason

From researching warranty claims and repair orders there is not a pattern of problems with the rear lift glass on the GMT800 platform products.
One problem with purchasing a used vehicle is that you never know what the previous owner may have done to contribute to the failure, for example: a kid standing on the back bumper pushing the glass up and beyond its range of travel or backing into a stationary object like a partly open garage door can attribute to such failures.

Generally speaking; an improperly built (or faulty engineered) component rarely takes 80k miles to fail and when they do, they do so in great numbers.

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1

Brad,
You found one other person (so you say) with similar problem, congratulations!
I am definitely seeing an epidemic here now.

ZX1100F1 - The quote that I posted was to show how your negative responses MAY keep other people from posting on this forum, not a representation of other people who have had the same problem that I have experienced.

You have your head so far up your a$$ that you do not even realize why I posted that e-mail. Read it and see that she did not want to post due to the "rude" people who were on the forum.

Brad

quote:

ORIGINAL: jasonw75

Brad:

You say you paid $36,000.00 cash for a one year old vehicle... Do you realize that your car is actually 4 years old now, not 1 year old. you also said you bought it from a dealership, I'm quite sure they offered you an extended warranty when you purchased it, dealerships make quite a bit of money selling warranties... Did you purchase an extended warranty? If so, why don't you take it up with your warranty company?

Jason

Actually, it is just over 3 years old now, just slightly out of warranty :) They did not offer an extended warranty as it had the remainder of the factory warranty. What we are talking about here is not a warranty claim, but a defect in manufacturing. The Area Service Manager had said that the 3 only times he saw this problem, he refused to fix them under warranty EVEN THOUGH THOSE VEHICLES WERE STILL UNDER THE 3/36 FACTORY WARRANTY!

Brad

quote:

ORIGINAL: ZX1100F1

From researching warranty claims and repair orders there is not a pattern of problems with the rear lift glass on the GMT800 platform products.
One problem with purchasing a used vehicle is that you never know what the previous owner may have done to contribute to the failure, for example: a kid standing on the back bumper pushing the glass up and beyond its range of travel or backing into a stationary object like a partly open garage door can attribute to such failures.

Generally speaking; an improperly built (or faulty engineered) component rarely takes 80k miles to fail and when they do, they do so in great numbers.

Oh yeah - here's a little something from another forum. I know that it is for early '05 models, but I'll keep up the fight.

You are on the inside, you should have come across this as well.


Reading your story, I got so upset at the run around the Area Service Manager gave you, that I made it my MISSION to prove that he was giving you customer deflection, rather than customer satisfaction.

What I found is directly from GM... in the form of a GM Customer Satisfaction campaign for the exact issue that you experienced, only GM limited this particular campaign to some early 2005 models. However these models are not the new style 2005 and 2006. The models covered by this campaign were the earliest 05 models built with that adhesive attached liftgate glass hinge, similar to the 2003 and 2004.

Since the campaign advisory was issued in July of 2004 (first or second month of '05 model year production), and was published on the dealer network well over two years ago, there is no excuse for the Area Service Manager to act like he never heard of this issue before. What a crock. If a lay person can find what I found below, then he certainly could have, with all of his official access, pass codes, informational meetings, etc. He was pulling a snow job, only his snow is yellow, and it stinks.

Here it is:

Customer Satisfaction - Liftgate Window Molding #04065 - (Jul 26, 2004)
04065 - Liftgate Window Molding
2005 Chevrolet Tahoe, Suburban

2005 GMC Yukon, Yukon XL

ON JULY 20, 2004, ALL VEHICLES INVOLVED IN THIS PROGRAM WERE PLACED ON STOP DELIVERY. AFTER THE SERVICE PROCEDURE CONTAINED IN THIS BULLETIN IS COMPLETED, THE VEHICLES MAY BE DELIVERED TO CUSTOMERS.

Condition
General Motors has decided that certain 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburbans, and GMC Yukon and Yukon XL vehicles may have been built with an incorrect adhesive on the liftgate window molding, resulting in the possibility of the molding partially separating from the window.

Correction
Dealers are to replace the liftgate window.

Vehicles Involved
Involved are certain 2005 Chevrolet Tahoe and Suburbans, and GMC Yukon and Yukon XL vehicles built within these VIN breakpoints:

Year
Division
Model
From
Through

2005
Chevrolet
Tahoe
5R100002
5R104810

2005
Chevrolet
Suburban
5R100015
5R104788

2005
GMC
Yukon
5R100004
5R104809

2005
GMC
Yukon XL
5R100003
5R104808



Important
Dealers should confirm vehicle eligibility through GMVIS (GM Vehicle Inquiry System) prior to beginning program repairs. [Not all vehicles within the above breakpoints may be involved.]


For dealers with involved vehicles, a Campaign Initiation Detail Report containing the complete Vehicle Identification Number, customer name and address data has been prepared and will be loaded to the GM DealerWorld, Recall Information website. The customer name and address data furnished will enable dealers to follow up with customers involved in this program.

The Campaign Initiation Detail Report may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any other purpose is a violation of law in several states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the follow-up necessary to complete this program.

Parts Information
Parts required to complete this program are to be obtained from General Motors Service Parts Operations (GMSPO). Please refer to your "involved vehicles listing" before ordering requirements. Normal orders should be placed on a DRO = Daily Replenishment Order. In an emergency situation, parts should be ordered on a CSO = Customer Special Order.

Part Number
Description
Qty/ Vehicle

15134413
Window, L/Gate
1

15038385
Bumper, L/Gate WDO
2


Service Procedure
The following procedure provides instructions for replacing the rear liftgate window assembly.

Open the rear liftgate window.
Disconnect the two electrical connectors that attach to the rear window defroster/defogger.



Carefully remove the retainer (clip) from both hinge pins. The retainers can be reused later in this procedure if they are not damaged.

Caution
When a window assist strut is being disconnected or connected, provide alternate support to avoid the possibility of damage to the vehicle or personal injury.



Notice
Apply pressure only at the end of the liftgate window assist strut that you are removing or attaching. Do NOT apply pressure to the middle of the rod because damage or bending will result.


With an assistant holding the liftgate window open, disconnect both assist struts from the brackets on the glass. With the lower end of the struts still connected to the liftgate, swing the struts down and out of the way.
With the aid of an assistance and with the window held open, slide or move the window slightly to the left to disengage the hinge from the hinge pin on the body. Once disengaged, remove the window from the vehicle.



Using a small, flat-bladed screwdriver, carefully pry out both window bumpers from the liftgate sheet metal.
Install new window bumpers in the liftgate.
With the aid of an assistant, position and align the hinges on the new liftgate window to the hinge pins located on the body.
Once aligned, move the window slightly to the right to engage the window hinges on the pins.

Important
The retainers (clips) that secure the liftgate window to the hinge pins should only be replaced if they were damaged during removal earlier in this procedure.


Install the retainers on the hinge pins to secure the window to the liftgate.
With an assistant holding the liftgate window fully open, reposition and connect both assist struts to the brackets on the glass.
Connect the two electrical connectors to the rear window defroster/defogger.
Slowly close the liftgate window and verify proper fit and alignment.
Claim Information
Submit a Product Program Claim with the information indicated below.

Repair Performed
Part Count
Part No.
Parts Allow
CC-FC
Labor Op
Labor Hours
Net Item

Install Liftgate Window Assembly
3
--
**
MA-96
V1212
0.3*
N/A

Courtesy Transportation
N/A
N/A
N/A
MA-96
***
N/A
****

Floor Plan Reimbursement
N/A
N/A
N/A
MA-96
V1213
N/A
*****

* -- For Program Administrative Allowance, add 0.1 hours to the "Labor Hours".

** -- The "Parts Allowance" should be the sum total of the current GMSPO Dealer Net price plus applicable Mark-Up for the liftgate window and bumpers needed to complete the repair.

*** -- Submit courtesy transportation using normal labor operations for courtesy transportation as indicated in the GM Service Policies and Procedures Manual.

**** -- The amount identified in the "Net Item" column should represent the dollar amount reimbursed to the customer.

***** -- The amount identified in the "Net Item" column should represent the dollar amount shown below (not to exceed 14 days):

Vehicle: Chevrolet Tahoe
Reimbursement